The Voice - Consumer's Voice

Can I get my money back?

Can you please help me I bought a couch at a furniture store worth P7,000 on laybye. I paid it within two months. Now when I was supposed to collect it they are telling me that they have sold it and I need to identify another couch close to that amount. I couldn’t find anything likeable but only the one that was costing P11,000. Now they are telling me to top up it with P1,500 and am I’m telling them that I don’t have that P1,500 but only P1,000. They are now telling me that I can’t get it without the P1,500 but they are they are demanding it whereas they are the ones that inconvenienced me.

I think the time has come to remind this store who’s in charge here. In fact, I think a LOT of stores need to understand this. In the past companies often thought they were in charge of the relationship with their customers. That was also the case with banks, insurance companies, almost every industry. They thought that because they knew more about their products than we did, because they had big offices, huge salaries, fancy titles and nice cars that they controlled the relationship with us.

But times have changed. Consumers are now in charge. In particular two things have changed to our benefit. Firstly, the new Consumer Protection Act has given consumer a lot more protection and many greater rights. Perhaps even more importantly, social media came along and that has completely changed the landscape. Gone are official complaints procedures, gone are the day of suppliers telling us how we can raise our grievances. We can now complain whenever, wherever and however we please. We can now assert our rights much more effectively.

Maybe this furniture store didn’t get the message? I think you should contact the store and tell them that their behaviour is unacceptable. You gave them large amounts of your hard-earned money and they were required to deliver the product you bought. The lack of competence they demonstrated by selling your item not only breached the contract you had with them, it also broke various sections of the Consumer Protection Act. They need to give you a refund within seven days. Either that or they can look forward to being famous on Facebook. I wonder which would they prefer?

Have I been conned?

Hello sir, I have been recently retrenched and with the little package that I got I decided to buy myself a tractor and a plough to start farming. I made an enquiry to Alibaba and I got a response from Kebnel Groups LLC in the USA and went ahead to process the purchase, but ever since I made payment there were a lot of issues which led me to change cancel the deal and request for a refund.

The refund was promised but now there is communication breakdown between us and hence I suspect I’m being corned. I therefore consult you to know if you can help in resolving this issue.

I’m sorry but the bad news is that I also suspect that you’re being conned. I looked at the web site of the company claiming to sell these tractors and also the shipping company they claim to have used to ship you the tractor. Both seem very suspicious to me. The language they use is unlike what you would expect for reputable, legitimate companies. Also, I was able to find warnings from other people about the shipping company, claiming they’ve been used in earlier scams. There is a registered company in Texas called Kebnel but it appears to have no connection to these scammers. If you look closely at the emails you sent me you’ll see that they came from a Gmail account, not what you’d expect from a legitimate company.

Unfortunately, there’s little chance that you can get your money back. Scammers are not nice people and they certainly don’t offer refunds to their victims. However, as you transferred the money to their bank account it might be worth asking the bank to investigate exactly where the money went.

While I can’t offer you much hope I think there are several lessons for other people to learn. The first thing is always to ask ourselves if it’s realistic to buy an item like a tractor from the other side of the planet? We should also be sceptical of any company that claims to offer services like this that doesn’t offer a physical address. We should also think carefully about the quality of language used by such companies. The web site for a reputable company that claims to be in the USA should have reasonably good English, don’t you think? Also, the WhatsApp messages you sent me seem rather un-American.

Please spread the word always to be extremely careful before sending money to people you’ve never met.

The Voice - Consumer's Voice

Can I get my deposit back?

Good day kindly assist here

On the 27 July I paid a lay bye for a 55 inch LED television valued at an amount of P3,200. I paid a deposit of P200 for the television. The months for lay bye was indicated to be six months. Later around the month of October I went back to them and indicated that I want to cancel my lay bye as I don't think I will be able to pay the outstanding balance.

I further requested that I rather use the money I had paid as a deposit to buy something else, an electric fan to be precise, but they explained that they are not going to refund, nor exchange for the lay bye I have made.

Kindly assist.

Unfortunately, I don’t think I can be of much help.

When you buy something using a lay-bye, the store effectively puts aside the product for you until you’ve paid the full amount by way of instalments. The store is taking a slight risk because they could sell it to someone who has all the cash. They will also be concerned that you might fail to pay the full amount, delay the payment or cause them trouble some other way. In your case I assume they’ve now stored the TV for four months, incurring costs they hadn’t planned for.

What’s worse is that the receipt they gave you made it very clear that no refunds or exchanges would be possible when you first started the lay-bye. From what you say it seems that you’ve only lost P200 which, while it’s obviously irritating, isn’t a crisis.

The lesson? Always make sure you fully understand the obligations associated with what the law sometimes calls “deferred payment” schemes such as lay-byes and, even more importantly, hire purchase. And if you don’t understand the terms of such an agreement, don’t sign anything and don’t hand over any money!

Why can’t she return the TV?

I would like to enquire from you, My sister bought a television for my mother from a store at Gaborone station and when she arrived home she found that mother have already bought herself one. She went back to the store to exchange the television with a fridge but they refused. They said it is already second hand they can not take it. They won’t exchange with a fridge.

Today I called the manager and he asked me who I am to ask him why they won’t exchange for her. He said he won’t talk to me but rather Consumer Affairs.

Kindly help us on this matter.

Unfortunately, I don’t think I can offer you very good news either. Clearly the store manager needs to learn some diplomatic skills but did the store do anything wrong when they sold your sister the TV? From what you say, they sold her a TV in good faith, they didn’t lie to her about its condition, its features and the functions it offered or the terms of the warranty. They didn’t deliver a TV that was faulty or that didn’t work properly for the duration of the warranty period. As far as I understand, they stuck to all the laws that protect consumers to the letter, didn’t they?

If they had done any of these things your sister would certainly have a right to return the TV for one of the three Rs, a repair, replacement or a refund. But they didn’t do this. The inconvenient truth is that consumers don’t have a right to change their minds. Of course, there are some stores that allow you to return certain items without any fuss but that isn’t a right, that’s just very good customer care. That’s also why their products are more expensive.

Like I said, in your case I don’t think there’s much you can force the store to do. They’re right when they say that the TV is now second-hand and there’s no legal way they can sell the TV as new and get a full price for it. Has your sister considered selling the TV herself? I suspect she get a good price for a TV in its original, good as new state? It’s probably worth a try.

The Voice - Consumer's Voice

Where’s my lay-bye?

This email serves to lodge a complaint against a store in Francistown. I had made a laybye of a jacket which cost P1,380 sometimes between end of May or beginning of June 2019 and due to some unforeseen circumstances failed to pay the full amount. I visited the branch today and requested to cancel the laybye and had no problem with the 10% penalty / cancellation fee. I requested for a cash refund to enable me to use the funds elsewhere and even after the penalty, I was informed that they cannot give me a cash refund that they can only put the refunded amount in a gift voucher which I can only use to buy at the same store. They are forcing me to buy at their store even after the penalty which I agreed to pay which is 10% of the P345 I had paid as deposit.

Is there a way consumer watchdog can assist on the issue?

Like almost every agreement, this depends on what was in writing. Written agreements are everything. They’re the only things that matter. Verbal agreements are worthless.

I suggest you go back to any written agreement you had with the store and see what it says about payment terms. What does it say will happen if you default? Does it say that you’re not entitled to a cash refund? Does it say you must accept a voucher to spend in their store? Is that what it says? That’s the agreement you are committed to.

However, if there was no written agreement, I suspect you might be in a slightly more powerful position. My suggestion would be to deliver a letter or email to the store saying that you are cancelling the deal. Make your letter is the first thing that’s in writing. Tell them that the deal is cancelled and that in accordance with Section 15 (1) (e) of the Consumer Protection Regulations of 2001, you are formally cancelling the deal and that they must therefore restore to you any “deposit, down payment, or other payment” you have made to them. Remind them that the Regulations say that such a refund must be made “promptly”. It doesn’t define exactly what “promptly” means but I think we all know when something isn’t done promptly, don’t we?

Where are my forex profits?

There is a company in the CBD led by a certain lady who is a forex trader, I have been following her page in Facebook since 2017 before it disappeared this year. The company was doing great and it's services caught my eye. So beginning of this year around February she introduced account management and entrust account. I checked her at the CBD office with my husband and she gladly explained or described the two new services i.e their advantages and disadvantages. And we told her that we will think about them first. After 3 /4 months I went back to her CBD office to sign up for the entrust account. The account worked more like a loan to her in which we signed a contract on the 12th June 2019 and the contract was valid till the 12th August 2019 that's when she was supposed to return the money with the interest she agreed to pay. But she has since resorted to not paying me. She extended till the 30th August but still she couldn't pay and she promised to pay on the 6th September, but she has since blocked my number. Is there anyway u can help or advice me to solve this.

Here’s a simple truth. Forex trading by individuals like you and me is no different to gambling in a casino. Many of us have heard stories of people who’ve won fortunes in casinos and many of us might have heard of people who made money from trading foreign exchange. Some of these stories might even be true but they cover up the stories that are never told. The VAST majority of people who gamble in casinos lose their money, just like the VAST majority of people who trade forex who also lose the money they gamble.

You need to remember that while forex trading is often described as a “zero-sum” game, where overall the amount of money stays the same, where for every winner there’s a loser, this isn’t actually true with forex trading. Ordinary mortals like you and me, if we’re reckless enough to trade forex, need to do so through a forex trading platform who take a cut from everything we trade. THEY are the only ones who consistently make money from the business. Whoever wins and loses, they make money. That’s why they’re so desperate to recruit new people.

In your case, I wonder whether any forex trading even took place? I think you should contact both the Bank of Botswana who regulate “deposit-taking” schemes and NBFIRA who oversee anyone who offers investment advice. Between them I think they have the power to make this person explain herself. Send me her details and I’ll get in touch with her as well.

The Voice - Consumer's Voice

Where's my laybye?

Report 1. I made a laybye purchase in a shop that was operating in Game City. Yesterday I went to the shop wanting to pay the remaining balance so that I could collect the bed I had purchased. Unfortunately I found the shop closed and locked with no sign of operation. I called one of the employees and he told me that the shop had been closed indefinitely and could not provide further details. Please advise on how this should be handled since I have paid P4,500 towards my purchase. I have the receipts for the payments I have done so far and was remaining with a balance of P1,000 to collect the bed.

Report 2. I purchased a couch from a store in Game City in December 2017 and till this date they have not delivered the couch to me. When I call to enquirer they keep telling me that the owner of the store has fled the country and people want their rentals so they have closed up all his shops as well as his warehouse therefore they can't deliver the couch. This is so unfair to me as I have fully paid for the couch so please assist me on a way forward regarding this matter.

This is very sad. Two different reports on the same day from different people with the same experience of the same store! Unfortunately, I suspect there's little that can be done if the owner has skipped the country. You'll probably have a legal claim against the company but that's only useful if the company still has assets that you can claim against. You'll probably need to consult an attorney to see if this is possible. They can investigate what's happening with the company and its assets but I'm not optimistic.

I'm sorry that I don't have any better news for you.

Did I really sell my car?

I sold my car to a certain individual. He test drove it and was happy with it. We left Gaborone and went to Mochudi to get the cash and back to Gaborone to drop me home and he went back home to Mochudi. The next day around 10am he calls me and says my car is overheating (just the temp gauge is going up) I ask him how come now yet yesterday it was alright hence we even drove about 120km or so and it has no issues. He demands his money back and he says i should take my car back, He hasn't been using it ever since Friday but I told him thats not possible because I have already spend the money and i gave him a car which he was satisfied with hence he took it. We did not make a written agreement it was verbal.

He then called me again complaining that the signatures on the blue book are not the same with the ones on the id copy so they declined to help him change names at transport. The signature is from the previous owner not me. I never changed it when I bought it from the previous owner because I knew the guy didn't really see the need of changing it and we never made a written agreement with the guy before.

I would really appreciate a way forward to this because this guy is really bothering me.

This is much more complicated than you might think. I'm not an attorney but I think you're in a very strange legal situation. I suspect that you might have sold a car that you didn't actually own. Or rather a vehicle you can't prove that you owned. If you think about it, there is no proof that the car belonged to you. There was no written sale agreement that described the change of ownership and the blue book, the vehicle registration document, still shows the details of the previous owner.

The guy who bought the car might even be in a position to suggest that you sold the car illegally and there's not much you can do to prove anything different.

Given that you can't prove that the car belonged to you and that you are therefore in a dangerous situation, and given that the car isn't working properly and without a sale agreement you can't prove the buyer accepted that the car was in working order I don't think you have much choice. You need to find a way to refund him the amount he paid you and take back the car and get it in your name.

The lesson is simple. Written agreements are essential whenever you sell something. And make sure you change the ownership of a vehicle when you buy it!

The Voice - Consumer's Voice

Did they steal my phone?

So I took a phone to a cell repair shop in African mall to fix the on button, when I returned to collect it they tell me that the shop got robbed along with my phone but there is no police report and I have been reliably informed that they sold it at another shop in the main mall. I'm not some maverick vigilante so I would just like my things to get sorted out asap. I still have the receipt so what would be the quickest and best way to get my grievance sorted, it's been two weeks with these guys not telling me anything concrete. I have been advised by a friend to go to consumer affairs or something at a local police station.

I’m glad you’re not a vigilante because vigilantes, in fact anyone who takes the law in to their own hands, isn’t a vigilante, they’re a criminal. The law is there to protect us but in most cases the people empowered to enforce the law are those employed by legitimate law enforcement agencies such as the Police, DCEC and DIS. Other entities such as BURS, Bureau of Standards and Bank of Botswana have certain legal powers but that’s usually limited to writing angry letters, not kicking down doors, having car chases and handcuffing people.

Incidentally, there are certain exceptions. Both you and I have the legal power to detain someone if we feel they’ve committed a serious criminal offence but that’s all we can do. We can defend ourselves if they turn violent but we don’t have the right to beat them up and we certainly don’t have the right even to search them. Only our brothers and sisters in blue can do that. No, before you ask security guards don’t have special powers.

So, no, you mustn’t go all vigilante on them, instead you should go to the Police. Forget Consumer Affairs for now, go to the Police and say that you think the store has either stolen the items, colluded in them being stolen or is covering up a theft. Either way they need to explain themselves and the best people to make them do that are the people who CAN search their premises and who can apply the right level of “persuasion to the owners and managers of the store.

And before you ask, no I don’t wish I had that sort of power. It would be messy. A small but significant number of business people would very quickly be enjoying the hospitality of the nice people in the Department of Prisons.

Where’s my refund?

I kindly request your advice. I made a lay bye at a shop at Airport junction of P1000 cash on the 10th October. The condition on the receipt is 25% handling fee will be charged upon cancellation of Lay-bye.

On the 21st November I went to the shop to cancel the lay-bye, I was told the refund will be deposited in my account, the shop does not do refunds on cash only EFT. Since then I have not got my refund. I called the shop today I was told the Accountant is in South Africa and he is sick and as such I will not be getting my refund this week.

I asked to speak to the owner of the shop, he was very rude, upon expressing to him how unhappy I am that I have to be punished to cancel lay bye, I paid cash now I have to be sent from pillar to post to get my refund, they can’t even ascertain me of the date I will receive the refund. I asked where is stipulated that condition of refunds is done only via EFT, he told me he does not owe anyone condition of how he runs his shop. I have bought before at this shop and to get this treatment especially from the so called owner I feel my rights as a consumer were violated.

Let’s be fair. You sent your email to me on 25th November, only four days after you told the store you wanted to cancel the lay-bye. I’m not defending the alleged rudeness of the store owner but it was only four days after you tried to cancel the deal that you complained. I can’t say whether the story they told you about the accountant being sick is true or not but is there any reason not to believe it? Let’s be generous and assume it’s true.

As for their suggestion that the refund must be made by bank transfer, that’s normal practice with stores. Regardless of how you pay for the item, they don’t want to deal with cash. Cash is an expensive thing to manage and it’s also very, very risky. To get cash to and from the store and their bank requires a safe, secure transport and very careful, manual processes. The opportunities for crime, both inside the company and outside, are immense. It’s almost 2017 and cash is not something that many organizations want to handle.

Nevertheless, this company’s owner obviously has a very poor understanding of how to deal with customers but I think you should give them a few days longer to fix your situation. If, by the time you read this, it’s not sorted, let me know. Then we can get rough!